Monday, November 20, 2017

Returning Products That Don't Work?

When I was recruited into Amway, one of the catch phrases was that you are now a business owner. It sounds cool to be a business owner, but in reality, it appears that IBOs are simply salesmen for Amway who are afforded no guaranteed wage or any fringe benefits. In fact, many Amway salesmen do Amway a favor and go out recruiting other salesmen for Amway without any compensation. It makes sense though, because to attain levels of significance, you need to have downline. While it is possible (but nearly impossible) to reach platinum and even ruby without downline, any levels higher will require you to have downline.

So as an Amway salesman, you have no minimum sales requirement. That may seem like a good thing but many uplines will impose a defacto 100 PV requirement for "serious" IBOs. If you are planning to sponsor someone, your upline will likely tell you that your donwline will duplicate your efforts, therefore the 100 PV "requirement". 100 PV will cost about $300. While it is possible to sell some products, it would seem that most IBOs simply buy their own goods and do not sell to non IBOs. It's puzzling to me that so many IBOs argue about Amway's superior quality of products, yet so few former IBOs continue to use Amway products at all once they are not IBOs and even those that do, would rarely ever attain 100 PV. So much for that argument.

What many IBOs do not realize is that their upline diamonds are also salesmen. In addition to moving Amway volume, they will be selling you voicemail, standing orders, premiere club, functions, book of the month. All of these materials brings in a higher profit margin than Amway products. Thus it would only make sense that your upline salesmen would want to sell tools more than Amway products because it has more profit. Where this gets shady is when your upline tells you that they have your best interest at heart or that you virtually cannot succeed without these tools. Imagine your reaction if a vacuum cleaner salesman told you that he has your best interest at heart and that you cannot possibly clean your home without his vacuum. In an odd way, that is exactly what is happening when you purchase tools from upline. What's even worse is that the tools rarely ever work out for the IBOs who buy them. What if you bought a vacuum that didn't work? You would return it for a refund. What if the salesman said you can't return it because you used it?

I find it odd that IBOs accept this BS from upline. That you can only return unused tools. You should be able to return a product because it didn't work! Did that standing order actually help you to sponsor new people? Did you sell more products because you attended a function? Whether a tool is used or unused should not matter. You should be able to get a full refund if the tools didn't work. If not, IBOs who cannot return tools should complain to Amway and the better business bureau, and file formal complaints. Many IBOs simply quit and walk away, giving the tool sellers a break. If the tools don't work, you should return them on that basis and demand a refund. I challenge IBOs and former IBOs to do this.

Sunday, November 19, 2017

Making Millions In Amway?

I was sponsored into Amway by a good friend back in the 1990's. My friend had gone "direct" at the time so he recruited me by saying that going direct was "easy" and that he could easily show me how to do it. I had been recruited by an Amway IBO before and it was not a good experience where I was lied to in order to get me to "see the plan". I was in college and a friend had invited me to a "beer bust". I attended the meeting wearing a T-shirt and jeans only to arrive to see people wearing suits and ties and I was thinking WTH? My friend who invited me assured me that we would down some beer after the meeting. I was mad even though I stayed for the meeting.

I didn't join and my friend eventually told me that he may not be able to hang out with me in the future because he would be rich and may not have time to hang out anymore. I went home a bit mad and spoke to my friend who I came with. We talked about whether money could be made in Amway and decided that the Amway opportunity was likely saturated so we decided not to join.

Fast forward to the 1990's and a friend of mine has gone "direct". I didn't really know exactly what that was but I knew that the term "direct" meant you accomplished a significant level in Amway. I decided to join and see if my friend could deliver on his promise that he could show me how to go direct. I should have taken it as a red flag when I asked him about his Amway income and he told me it was none of my business. But he smoothed that over by assuring me that we would both be "Millionaires" traveling the world together in the future.

I worked really hard and managed to sponsor 12 frontline legs in about 7-8 months and I was climbing the Amway ladder. I was considered a "mover and shaker" so I got exclusive time with the upline Diamond. I even got to attend special meetings and house "plans" with the diamond.

The ironic part of thei story is that I purchased a home in about the year 2000 and I made the purchase for about $300K. My real estate agent also knows my Amway sponsor and contacted him about purchasing a home on Oahu (Hawaii). My former sponsor told the agent that he would only buy a home in cash (Amway/WWDB teaching). Fast forward to 2017 and my $300K home is worth nearly one million dollars so my home equity alone nearly makes my net worth a million dollars. When you add in my cash savings and investments, I am worth about 1.3 million. Sure, nothing to brag about and it's still not a life of luxury, but my former sponsor from Amway who is a physician is still renting a home and is nowhere close to retiring. I will be retired soon, with enough cash to live comfortably which includes frequent travel other luxuries.

While I may not be a diamond living the "diamond" lifestyle you see at functions on a slide show, I suspect that I'll be better off that some of the diamonds who live "bouts check to bonus check" trying to portray a lifestyle of "keeping up with the Joneses". Diamonds portray an excessive lifestyle of wealth but I suspect that many of them cannot afford the lifestyle they portray. There have been "factoids" that support my claims. The fact that a triple diamond in WWDB declared chapter 7 bankruptcy and another diamond had a home foreclosed (diamonds pay cash for everything?) shows that diamonds may not be as financially free as they claim.

So who's making millions in Amway? IMO, they folks selling CDs, voicemail, functions and books.

Friday, November 17, 2017

The Amway Reality?

One of the things that attracts many IBOs to the Amway opportunity is the idea that they can work part time, 2-5 years and gain a "shortcut" to ongoing and voluminous wealth. Many of the prospects don't have the kind of income or resources that they would like, so the possibility of a shortcut to these trappings sounds like a good idea. They sign up and get started, and then the realities of the business sets in.

100 PV, is the defacto minimum quota for business building IBOs. It costs about $300 to purchase 100 PV worth of products. How many young and single people or couples for that matter, use and/or need $300 worth of household products each month? How many of these same people can actually afford to expend that much cash on household products? The pitch is to change where you shop but how many people were buying these kinds of good prior to Amway? My guess is none. I know I purchased many items, including vitamins, and I didn't need or use before Amway. But my desire to be teachable and to be an example to my downline kept me buying the goods, and trying to pawn off some stuff on friends and relatives to lessen my PV burden.

I also found that getting people to see the plan was no easy task. While my business was growing, it took more and more effort to recruit downline and I can see where many IBOs would reach the saturation point where there simply aren't anymore viable recruits and they might need to resort to cold contacting in order to generate potential prospects. This is probably why there are stories of IBOs stalking people in bookstores, malls and supermarkets. Even when people saw the plan, there wasn't a high percentage of new people signing up. It is why building and maintaining a business is a nearly impossible task, and it is why I believe there aren't people who retire, walk away from their Amway businesses and enjoy six figure residual incomes for life.

The more likely scenario is an IBO signing up, buy and using the products and tools and slowly but surely build up debt. There are countless stories of ex IBOs who got fired up, started building the business and fouond that in a relatively short period of time, found themselves in thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in debt. All the while upline was encouraging them to buy more tools and attend more function, even when they were not profitable. In my opinion, this is confirmation that uplines care more about their tools profits that they do about downline success. I sat in functions where upline would teach about reducing debt, but in the same breath, say it was okay to go deeper in debt if it was to purchase more tools. Self serving advice.

It is why I believe this opportunity, along with the tools system, will nearly guarantee IBO failure. It is sad, but it is also a reality.

Wednesday, November 15, 2017

What Is Typical In Amway?

Many IBOs join Amway thinking they will go diamond and their lives will be easy after that. No more job, no more boss, and living in the lap of luxury. Afterall, uplines parade themselves on stage showing you slide shows and picture of jets, mansion, sports cars, etc. I suppose they don't aloways tell the audience that the trappings may not actually be owned by them. But still, it draws a great deal of excitement from the audience and the speaker may tell everyone to dream about having the same luxuries - if only you will listen to their advice and follow their system.

Oddly, most IBOs don't do a thing. Many who sign up don't even bother to place an order and most who sign up won't renew their business after one year. But these folks who basically do nothing aren't the victims of deception. These folks who "do nothing" got what they put into the business. It is the IBOs who do put in an effort and purchase what is often promoted as "foolproof" tools that fall victim to the promoters of the system. Many new and ongoing IBOs who are determined to succeed are often told that they "need" the system, that they cannot possibly succeed without tools, just as a carpenter cannot build homes without a hammer and nails. So many IBOs, wanting a better life, will make the investment in the tools, thinking their success is assured with that investment and and some elbow grease tossed in.

Sadly, the system does not work. Of course there are some new diamonds emerging every now and then but they are the exception and not the rule. My former LOS, WWDB seems to be going backwards. I believe there are fewer diamonds today than when I was active some years ago. Furthermore, some WWDB diamonds were embroiled in home foreclosures, bankruptcy, and some actually walked away from WWDB altogether.

There is ZERO, I repeat, ZERO unbiased evidence that any of these system tools help someone to build an Amway business. Showing a new diamond on stage as evidence of system success proves nothing. The diamonds don't show the hundreds of thousands of people who may have made the same effort only to fail. It's like showinng off the winners of the lottery. Sure there are winners but the reality and the typical result will be multitudes of losers contributing their money in order for one big winner to emerge. While the Amway business is not a game of chance, the ultimate outcome and results are just like a lottery.

Amway diamonds and promoters like to show people "what is possible", but they neglect to discuss with prospects "what is likely". If you are researching a business opportunity, you should be wanting to know "what is likely" or what are the typical results. If people only search for best case scenario results and ignore what is likely to happen, they are almost assured of failure. For most IBOs, the typical result is to spend $300 a month on products, many of which you never used before, and another $200 to $300 for training that doesn't work. That is typical and likely for many IBOs who work the business. Their return on their investment of time and money is about $10 in monthly income. Sure, there are some diamonds who earn over $100,000 a year from Amway, but that experience is unusual, not the likely result of joining the Amway business.

Someone researching a franchise opportunity such as McDonald's for example, will want to know what the average owner/operator earns. Knowing only the best case scenario doesn't help and while a real business owner may be interested in the best case situation, that same owner is likely to be more interested in the likely results. Why should Amway IBOs be different?

Tuesday, November 14, 2017

The Amway Fruit?

I had a good chuckle recently when some Amway apologists spoke about looking at the "fruit on the tree". One commentator said his parents were broke and he looked to his diamond since the diamond apparently had fruit on the tree. I thought about this concept and I agree, that perhaps we should look at fruit on the tree. My former LOS, WWDB had diamonds get divorced, , had homes foreclosed, go bankrupt, and some even left WWDB for greener pastures. That's some heavy duty fruit for sure.

IBOs and Amway prospects, please ask your upline platinum or diamond to show you the fruit on their tree. Ask them to see their (business) financial statements. This is actually a common practice in real business. When a friend of mine sold his business a few years back, he made three year's worth of income tax returns to show prospective buyers. If your upline dodges the issue or tell you to mind your own business, red flags should pop up all over the place.

As far as I know, not one single bigger pin has ever shown their business financials. In fact, if it made certain bigger pins look good, why wouldn't they want to "show their fruit". They certainly don't mind showing off diamond rings, fancy clothes, sports cars and the like. What many IBOs don't understand is that fancy cars and other toys is no evidence of fruit on the tree. Diamonds might be in debt or may not even own some of the toys they show off.

It has been discussed that some diamonds may rent cars or fancy homes and try to imply that they own these items. Some diamonds, possibly many diamonds in the past have lied or embellished the truth about paying for everything in cash, including their homes and cars. They also at times, have given the audience the impression that these luxuries are all purchased with Amway income, and we know that many diamonds have probably had supplemental income from the systems, or other business ventures outside of Amway.

We also know that some diamonds are in debt, but simply try to portray an excessive lifestyle. (See Ruth Carter's Book: Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Some diamonds may have a substantial income, but it doesn't mean they are financially free and able to live a jetset lifestyle that many portray. It is an illusion, possibly to be able to attract new prospects into the business.

So yes, let us actually see the fruit on the tree. Most likely the tree is bare.

Monday, November 13, 2017

Undeniable Amway Success?

Success is subjective. Someone making ten dollars might be considered successful, for others, nothing less than a barrel of cash will suffice. One other important point is that there are undoubtably some very successful people in Amway. I am sure that some Amway diamonds are quite well off and enjoy some of the finer things in life. But the reality is that these successes are very very rare and many of these success apparently are not sustainable as many people are led to believe.

But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.

This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.

To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.

Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.

Thursday, November 9, 2017

Amway Tools?

As an IBO, I was told that I "needed" to attend all functions. Attending all functions meant "all" is what I was told. Brad Duncan once had a tape in the true north series where he said that downline should not cancel standing orders even when IBOs quit, because there would then be an urgency to replace that person. I was in WWDB and while not everyone in WWDB may have taught this, our group was told that we should purchase 5-7additional tapes/cds in addition to standing order because we needed to listen to new material daily and because we should be passing out these materials as they will sponsor new people. To date, I do not know of anyone who passed out a tape or cd and had someone decide to join the Amway business as a result of listening to that tape or cd.

When I was in the business (In WWDB), our group was told that WWDB was a non profit organization. That was quickly retracted, but still, the WWDB leaders stood on stage in front of tens of thousands of IBOs and said nobody made a profit from tools. We now know that it was a lie. We also know that many of these leaders are still teaching, and as far as I know, not a single WWDB leader has ever been accountable for these lies. Some of these lies may have caused untold financial damage to downline. I'm certain I would have been less dedicated to tools if I had known that some uplines made most of their income from tools and that their advice was a conflict of interest. Some Amway defenders are currently talking about how some negative misinformation about Amway is hurting their business, but ironically, it would appear that most damage to Amway has been done by IBOs themselves, such as tricking people to meetings. As far as I know, not a single person has ever been held liable for the financial damages to downlines and former IBOs who lost money by being told lies about Amway.

Now I also would like to emphasize that I do not believe the tools work and do not produce any results. While Amway defenders will claim that most if not all new emeralds and diamonds are on the system, they fail to mention that there are also tens or hundreds of thousands of people who work the system without results. As far as I know, there is no bonafide unbiased evidence that suggests that the system produces any results. It is why IBOs end up later talking about being a nicer person of how their marriage was strenghthened by joining the system. While these are nice side benefits (if true), these reasons are not why you started a business. A business exists to make a profit, yet uplines make all kinds of excuses as to why IBOs did not profit, even placing the blame on the IBOs who trusted them.

It brings me to the real purpose of having tools. The REAL purpose of tools is to make profits for your upline. I believe the tools were invented as a way to motivate and train new and distance IBOs, but apparently, GREED eventually set in and many uplines started emphasizing tools, not because they wanted downline success, but because their tool businesses were wildly successful with thousands of captive downline dedicated to the system. I believe it is why I saw many IBOs who worked hard, never missed a meeting or function, did nto sponsor any downline, but were still told they needed more and more tools.

A carpenter needs tools is what you might be told. While that is true, a carpenter only needs 1 hammer or nail gun and doesn't have to buy new tools weekly. Nor do they need to pay for seminars and conventions to teach them their trade. And the tools directly allow the carpenter to do their job and get paid. What tangible monetary gains do IBOs get from voicemail, books, cds and seminars? They likely earn minimal bonuses and wind up with a net loss. A comparison of Amway tools to a carpenter is a straw man argument.

I believe the real purpose of having tools is so your upline's tools business can be profitable and so your upline can achieve their dreams. And that's despite what they may tell you a meetings and functions.

Wednesday, November 8, 2017

Pink Unicorns And Retired Amway Diamonds?

I was recently watching a show on Discovery channel the other night about Sasquatch. It was followed by a show about evidence of UFOs. It made me start to think about these phenomena. It seems like everyone has heard about or knows something about Sasquatch (Big foot) and/or UFOs, or pink unicorns for that matter. LOL. There are many documentaries showing pictures and evidence of such, but to date, there is no bonafide evidence that these things exist. You'd think that a body or bones of a Sasquatch would turn up somewhere, sooner or later, or we would find compelling evidence of a spaceship from another galaxy.

It sounds just like stories of people who built a diamondship, then "walked away" from their businesses, retired in the lap of luxury and did nothing while the money kept rolling in. I heard numerous scenarios about this happening, but looking back, all the diamonds kept working and since Joecool left the business, the diamond either kept working, dies, or quit or got terminated. But I never heard anyone name some higher up Amway pin who built a business, and then walked away from it to travel the beaches of the world while hundreds of thousands of dollars kept rolling in. Many have heard about it but nobody seems to be able to name any of these folks. I mean after over 50 years in existence, you'd think some of these folks would exist, especially when it seems to be a selling point of the business for many of the Amway recruiters.

It is my opinion that Sasquatch, UFOs and retired Amways diamonds (with significant Amway income) are non existent. If these folks existed, there should be at least some shred of evidence of it. The lack of evidence indicates to me that it is either non existent or so rare that nobody can display bonafide proof. I mean there aren't any T-Rexs roaming the earth anymore but fossil evidence proves that they existed at one time.

Keeping in mind that the Amway business has a high attrition rate, coupled with low sales to non IBOs and you can easily conclude that residual and significant income is nearly impossible. An Amway business that is left alone will deteriorate like a sandcastle does as the waves wash it away. You (in theory) could possibly walk away from an Amway business for a while and collect some income, but you won't be collecting enough income to live the "diamond lifestyle" as portrayed by diamonds in their functions and open meetings. I'm not even sure that active diamonds can comfortably afford that lifestyle even when building their businesses. There is ample evidence to support my claim. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosure, diamonds in bankruptcy, former diamonds revealing secrets about their income. If you really believe you can walk away from your Amway business and collect untold wealth, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. :-)

Tuesday, November 7, 2017

The Unseen Side Of Amway?

I was in discussion on another related forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, cars, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Monday, November 6, 2017

Joecool's 4000 PV Business?

Joecool wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like in Amway at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB defenders will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have good reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did (phone)call in and product pick up back then. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff.

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum on Wednesday evening and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork costed me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB may still have call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit. In other words, if your downline quit, you keep paying for their standing order subscription)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I"m not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools.

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland. These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions costed me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO.

Thursday, November 2, 2017

Build Amway Right and Build It Once?

I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.

Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?

Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.

All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.

Wednesday, November 1, 2017

No Negative In Amway?

One of the silly things many Amway IBOs are taught is to avoid all negative. I believe this is taught today by uplines and it was certainly a point of emphasis even in my days as an IBO. The upline diamond would say that the world of full of negatives and that we as people take in too much of these negatives. Therefore, the IBOs were told to avoid television, newspapers and other forms of communication with the outside world. The group was also told to avoid people who speak negatively about Amway. For this reason, many people have considered Amway groups such as WWDB or N21 as cultish or cult-like. (information deprevation or information control).

I can agree that you surely don't want to only take in negatives as it can wear you down, but not seeing the news or reading about current events in the paper simply makes you apathetic and uninformed. For example, wouldn't you want and need to know if there was a storm heading your way? I live in Hawaii and we occasionally have hurricanes. Avoiding news could be very detrimental to your family and home. If you lived in the midwest of the US, wouldn't you want and need to know if a tornado was headed your way? Do you avoid the doctor because his assessment of your health might not be "positive"? For these reasons, I believe that many Amwayers walk around wearing a mask with a false smile, trying to overly positive. I recall IBOs saying they had a "warm" if they weren't feeling well (warm is the opposite of a "cold").

Another important thing that many IBOs cannot distinguish is the difference between negative and the truth. If your wife asks you if her new dress makes her look fat, the truth might be that the new dress indeed makes her appear fat. That answer may be uncomfortable for you to deliver, but the truth is the truth. The truth at times can be positive or negative but it is still the truth. The truth is that the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money. There's no going around that fact.

Most IBOs earn less than $100 a month. That is the truth. Most IBOs lose money if they participate in functions and standing orders and such. That is the truth. Most IBOs will never even sponsor a downline. That is the truth. Most IBOs, filled with motivation and dreams, will never see those dreams fulfilled. That is the truth. Many upline diamonds, who advise IBOs to purchase tools and attend functions, and fill the IBO's heads full of dreams, make significant incomes from the sale of tools and functions. That is also the truth. In a 1 year timespan, approximately 50% of IBOs will quit. That is the truth.

Is it negative to tell the truth? Or can IBOs not handle the truth?

Tuesday, October 31, 2017

Believe In Amway?

I often hear stories and testimonies about how some people (usually newbies) have this incredible belief in Amway, their sponsors and their LOS, such as WWDB or Network 21. Being that many, possibly most IBOs are sponsored by a friend or family member, means that there is an inherent trust in the sponsor or upline. If that were not true, then we would likely see many more complaints about Amway and/or the uplines and lines of sponsorship.

But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.

Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your mentors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.

Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.

How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?

Monday, October 30, 2017

Quitting Is Winning In Amway?

I often see commentary about people quitting Amway and Amway loyalists are quick to call them broke, losers, lazy, lacking guts. Ironically, these same lazy and loser types of people were "sharp" and motivated prospects before they signed up for the Amway opportunity. Someone recently left a comment on my blog about how AMOs should conduct exit interviews with departing IBOs to get to the root of the problems. I think these exit interviews would reveal that people are working hard and applying the AMo teaching, only to lose money,

Based on my years of blogging and Amway experiences, I can honestly say I believe that people quit Amway primarily for one reason. The money isn't there. Amway's own numbers show that the average IBO earns just over $200 a month and that is before taxes and expenses, and that number excludes inactive IBOs. Business building IBOs earn most of the bonuses, but business building IBOs generally have the most expenses, often participating in the system of standing orders, voicemail, books and functions.

When I was an IBO, I did as upline advised and I achieved a fairly significant level (4000 PV), but due to the expenses associated with tools and helping downline, I didn't earn net profit. This is confirmed by a study done by the Wisconsin attroney general who examined the tax returns of platinume and found that they averaged a net loss of about $1000 a year. While the study was a bit dated, I would suggest it is still very valid as platinums today, have more tools (business building materials) that they are expected to buy from upline. If I made nothing at 4000 PV, anyone with half a brain can conclude that IBOs below 4000 PV and fully participating on the system would end up with a net loss because their expenses would be similar to mine, but with less bonus money.

The bottom line is that people are very likely quitting because they aren't profitable. If people made a few hundred a month with 8-15 hours of work per week, they would continue to run their businesses. But those who work and make nothing or lose money have no reason or motivation to continue. Thus they simply make a wise business decision and quit. What seemed like a good idea during the presentation simply did not pan out when reality set in. It's also reasonable to conclude that the products are that great either because if they were, those who quit would become loyal customers, thus even if the sales force turned over, sales would consistently rise as former IBOs would become customers. It's apparent that most former IBOs do not become loyal Amway customers. In fact, for those who later discover they were lied to or deceived about the Amway opportunity, become critical of Amway instead.

Why do people quit Amway? I think the answer is crystal clear. The quitters are the winners!

Friday, October 27, 2017

Amway Testimony?

This comment was sent to me by a site visitor. He speaks of an Amway IBO's expenses and some of the trials his family member has gone through:


Hey Joe. Love the blog, read it every week. I have a family member in "the biz" and due to various reasons it frustrates me but i support this person no matter what decisions they choose to make. I have been to a few meetings, a few get togethers, and have been encouraged to join the "biz" and attend functions on several occasions. I have a decent job, I make decent money and I have no interest in selling crap to people in my spare time.

The products sold by the way are items that are purchased daily by consumers everywhere in the city at various storefronts. There is no shipment to wait for and whether its toothpaste or vitamins, there is a store for that. Honestly, how can you really compete?

Anyway, I could go on and on but I would like to share with you some things I have seen from these ibo weirdos that are expenses. So yeah, I went to a few meetings and wow, what a bunch of bs. They want you to buy cd's and books etc. from motivational speakers (yes I have listened to a few breifly) that basically make people feel bad about themselves and how they live (thats all i hear anyways)....and the ibo weirdos eat it up and actuall BUY it. The stuff isnt cheap either so if you had profit you are losing some there. These people drive to meetings every week, and pay an entrance fee so they can watch videos on how you can get rich, listen to motivational assholes (they actually take notes) and actually purchase new products so they can try them out for themselves.

All I see there is expenses....tally it up, entrance fee, gas money, babysitters, stationary items, books, cds, and hell even the clothing they show up in to project their image of success....its all an expense. I was invited to a couple of functions and on the cheap side, it would have cost anywhere from $300 to 500 just to get wherever it was and to get in the door....and for what? I was told to get the information I needed to succeed. Ha! What information? It's all just some rich (or rich acting) person flaunting the shiny new shit they supposedly have and telling you to your face more or less that you are a useless bag of shit unless you are like me. More expenses for nothing. Wow. Ibo weirdos also like to buy(through the biz none the less) fancy new electronics that will help them to make more money by working the internet angle. Ummm....BIG expense, how long till it pays for itself? I have gone to a few bbqs and get together type deals because I was invited (only cause they have to invite me due to family ties lol) and ill tell ya, not one home i have seen is that of someone successful. We are talking some low income housing my friend, and guess what you ALWAYS notice? Huge dry erase boards, filing cabinets, books and cds galore, projection monitors hooked up to computers ( with some amway logo as the screensaver), amway products displayed in every room, and yes even home phone "business" lines......ALL of them expenses.

Yet, in these homes sadly there is little else. I mean, damn you have to live a little. Your entire life can't become engulfed in this crap can it? These ibo weirdos hate me, that's for sure. I refuse to be a part of their "biz" and I have a large furnished home, several toys, vehicles, and cash in my pocket, and I do it all because I have a JOB, and you know what? There are no expenses and i do better than any of the members in their team! Oh yeah, does amway provide any dental, vision, or medical? EXPENSE! The biggest expense I see is the amount of time they lose with their families. Every spare moment is used on a phone call, on the internet, at a function, at a meeting, setting up to display items at different locations, throwing crappy house parties to get more suckers, etc. etc. Talk about freedom huh? So, I will continue to support my family member, as I am not her "owner" and want her do what she pleases and what makes her happy. But it works for me because each time I have to attend a crappy bbq (no more meetings though, we came to an agreement lol) or some get together functions, it is a great reality check for me. I always walk away knowing I am doing something right, that i truly am successful, my family members are all taken care of, and my expenses are 3/4 of a tank of gas a week. Hmmmm.....so what do you think joe? What ibo expenses have I missed?

Thursday, October 26, 2017

Returning Amway Stuff?

When I was recruited into Amway, one of the catch phrases was that you are now a business owner. It sounds cool to be a business owner, but in reality, it appears that IBOs are simply salesmen for Amway who are afforded no guaranteed wage or any fringe benefits. In fact, many Amway salesmen do Amway a favor and go out recruiting other salesmen for Amway without any compensation. It makes sense though, because to attain levels of significance, you need to have downline. While it is possible (but nearly impossible) to reach platinum and even ruby without downline, any levels higher will require you to have downline.

So as an Amway salesman, you have no minimum sales requirement. That may seem like a good thing but many uplines will impose a defacto 100 PV requirement for "serious" IBOs. If you are planning to sponsor someone, your upline will likely tell you that your downline will duplicate your efforts, therefore the 100 PV "requirement". 100 PV will cost about $300. While it is possible to sell some products, it would seem that most IBOs simply buy their own goods and do not sell to non IBOs. It's puzzling to me that so many IBOs argue about Amway's superior quality of products, yet so few former IBOs continue to use Amway products at all once they are not IBOs and even those that do, would rarely ever attain 100 PV. So much for that argument.

What many IBOs do not realize is that their upline diamonds are also salesmen. In addition to moving Amway volume, they will be selling you voicemail, standing orders, premiere club, functions, book of the month. All of these materials brings in a higher profit margin than Amway products. Thus it would only make sense that your upline salesmen would want to sell tools more than Amway products because it has more profit. Where this gets shady is when your upline tells you that they have your best interest at heart or that you virtually cannot succeed without these tools. Imagine your reaction if a vacuum cleaner salesman told you that he has your best interest at heart and that you cannot possibly clean your home without his vacuum. In an odd way, that is exactly what is happening when you purchase tools from upline. What's even worse is that the tools rarely ever work out for the IBOs who buy them. What if you bought a vacuum that didn't work? You would return it for a refund. What if the salesman said you can't return it because you used it?

I find it odd that IBOs accept this BS from upline. That you can only return unused tools. You should be able to return a product because it didn't work! Did that standing order actually help you to sponsor new people? Did you sell more products because you attended a function? Whether a tool is used or unused should not matter. You should be able to get a full refund if the tools didn't work. If not, IBOs who cannot return tools should complain to Amway and the better business bureau, and file formal complaints. Many IBOs simply quit and walk away, giving the tool sellers a break. If the tools don't work, you should return them on that basis and demand a refund. I challenge IBOs and former IBOs to do this.

Wednesday, October 25, 2017

The Am-Way To Retirement?

One of the things Amway leaders do is to disparage people with jobs. Oh, they would say we needed people to wait on our tables and clean our toilets, but in general, jobs were put down and basically the group was told that Amway is their best chance at achieving financial freedom, giving them the ability to flush their jobs. Ironically, IBO's jobs are what funds their Amway businesses. Most IBOs would be out of business within weeks if not for their job income funding their Amway businesses. The upline gets people to dislike to even despise their jobs. I remember an upline saying if you wouldn't do your job for free, then you don't like it that much. But to that, the same can be said about Amway right?

The key selling point appears to be the 2-5 years of part time work rather than working a job for 30 - 40 years and then retiring on a pension or social security which may or may not be there when you retire. This plants a fear in people about the future and then the Amway opportunity is presented in a positive light because the Amway opportunity comes with a low start up cost. What uplines do not mention is how the opportunity can become a money pit as the monthly defacto 100 to 300 PV quota starts to add up. It is my guess that if people only bought items they truly needed, these IBOs would likely move 100 PV every three months, unless they are actively selling goods to non IBO customers (which is not that common IMO).

When an IBO finally agrees to register, it is then that the hidden costs are revealed. Many uplines will introduce voicemail, standing orders and functions and present these tools as vital to IBO success. Most new IBOs don't know better and feel subtle pressure to conform and give it a try. Some upline may loan some tools to downline in the beginning but evemtually, the IBO will be encouraged to be a "serious" business owner who should be purchasing their own tools to loan to their downline and the cycle goes on.

If you examine some version of the Amway recruitment plan, you will see that most active IBOs are at the 100 PV level, which will reward you with a monthly bonus of about $10 or so. If that same IBO subscribes to the tools system, than IBO will likely be losing over $100 a month not including the product purchases. And because many IBOs have been convinced that working a job is so horrible, that they can be convinced that this condition of losing money is temporary and that untold wealth is right around the corner. Sadly, for most, this condition is the norm and even the sponsorship of a few downline, the losses continue to mount. Yet many are convinced that this is better than a job.

There's no retirement in Amway. Over the years, not a single Amway defender could name and provide evidence of a single person who built Amway, and walked away to enjoy massive residual income. Diamonds are forever in that they work forever, never retiring because if they stopped working, their income would stop. And if I may add, portraying a diamond lifestyle is a very expensive endeavor. There is no Am-Way to retirement.

Ironically, a job allows people to pay their monthly bills, feed their families and many people enjoy their work and co workers. While upline leaders may convince you otherwise, it is this very same excuse upline leaders use when asked why they are still working instead of walking the beaches of the world collecting massive amounts of residual income. I would encourage IBOs to truly analyze their efforts in Amway and determine if it is beneficial to your finances. In most cases, your Amway efforts ONLY benefits your upline's finances. For most who get involved, the Amway opportunity is not better than a job. Be careful!

Tuesday, October 24, 2017

Amway Versus Gambling?

This blog post is not about comparing Amway to a game of chance, although sadly, Amway's ultimate results have less success than gambling, For Amway and Gambling, "hope" is the common thread that hooks people and keeps them involved. Why does Amway appeal to some people despite the overwhelming odds? I believe it's the same reason why people enjoy gambling and what keeps people hooked on both. Like gambling, the Amway opportunity (the way it is often presented) represents "HOPE". Hope it is why people buy a lottery ticket. Hope is often the reason why people gamble as well. One pull on a slot machine could result in millions. Amway is not a game of chance but it represents hope. As a young prospect, my sponsor would ask how else any of us could become rich or millionaires? The answer was zilch. My sponsor would say that the Amway business represented our "best" chance.

Everyone needs hopes and dreams. It's what keeps most people going. Without hope, many people are susceptible to depression or they may begin to wonder what the purpose of their life is. In some instances where people take their own lives, it is common for that person to have lost or given up hope. Without any hope for better things or a better life, they give up and may do the unthinkable and take their own lives.

Where I believe some Amway leaders are scum is when they give people false hopes and dreams and use it to profit handsomely likely knowing that their downline will never profit in the Amway business. I've heard from some former pins who had witnessed some of the bigger pins making jokes about the dreamers in the audience who keep coming to seminars but will never make it. These folks want success so badly that they literally have tears in the eyes. They will work the business hard but they won't make it. The system is designed to have a few successes with many participants. A good example is the common 6-4-2 plan where all 79 IBOs moved enough volume to earn a bonus, yet only one platinum is created from that volume. The rest, if on the system of cds, seminars, voicemail and books will likely operate at a net loss despite doing the right things and putting in the effort. It's just really sad to know that so many people have big hopes and dreams that will never be fulfilled.

Some groups of diamonds will display a "diamond lifestyle" showing off golf trips, fabulous vacations, mansions, cars and jet skis. Do all of this with no job and the money is unlimited and keeps rolling in. This is what some groups will portray as the goal for many young and newbie IBOs. They'll says things like "anyone" can do it. While anyone can do it, anyone can also win the lottery or anyone can make million in Las Vegas. No, Amway is not gambling, but the representation of "hope" is often what attracts people to gambling, Las Vegas, and Amway. Both (Amway and gambling) have few winners and a multitude of losers.

Monday, October 23, 2017

The Amway Tools Work?

One of the biggest points of contention between Amway critics and Amway defenders is the debate about tools, or business support materials (BSM). These materials commonly consist of voicemail, website fees, cds, standing order, books and seminars or functions. I agree that some training might be helpful to a new IBO, but how much training? A sponsor is obligated to train those whom they sponsor, so how much training do you actually need? Also, I used to wonder why you couldn't buy a certain book at Barnes and Noble if it was cheaper than buying it from Upline?

The Amway business, broken down to very simple terms, is buying and selling products, and recruiting/sponsoring others. If you desire to build volume and perhaps to achieve a "level" in the business. The tools, or BSM are often touted as the key to your success as an IBO, but it is often a conflict of interest for upline to promote this as some of them profit from the sales of BSM. Also, according to the Amway accreditation rules, a written and transparent compensation plan for their professional develop program (tools/BSM) is required, but I have yet to actually see IBOs who know about this. Seems this aspect of accreditation is either not policed or ignored, and/or it seems IBOs are certainly not aware of this. After all, if IBOs and prospects are told that there is income for IBOs via tools at a certain level, how do you know if you qualify, and for how much? Nobody seems to have a definite answer.

But aside from that conversation, what purpose do the tools actually serve? I have heard IBOs talk about how they benefit from tools, but when asked if the tools resulted in a net profit from Amway, the silence was deafening. When I was an IBO, and apparently even now, the tools rarely contain specific material about how to actually run a profitable Amway business. There were no standing orders that told me how to track profits and expenditures. There were no speeches about record keeping and how to file business taxes. There were no meetings where we discussed return on investment of both time and money.

There was talk about dreams, and ignoring facts if the dream was big enough. There was talk about it being okay to go into unscured credit card debt, as long as it was to buy tools or more function tickets. There was talk about sacrificing family needs if it meant buying more tools. Sure, upline didn't force you to do this, they simply convinced you that it was a good idea, much like how a conman makes you think you are making a good decision when they are playing you.

This blog doesn't serve to convince you one way or another about the many subjects, but to offer a differing opinion for IBOs and new prospects to base their decisions on. If you see things here that make sense, I urge you to read more, and to ask your upline or sponsor the tough questions about the tools, or your continued involvement, especially if you are at a net loss at the end of the month.

Sunday, October 22, 2017

Never Quit And You Will Make It?

My former sponsor always used to tell me that if you never quit Amway, you will "make it". The saying was that even if you took 30 years to go diamond, it will still be worth it and better than having a job. The problem that most people don't see with this statement right away is the very real possibility that you can spend 30 years in Amway and never make it. My former sponsor has been in Amway for 24 years now and he's below the platinum level. I highly doubt he will ever go diamond. But if he does, will it be worth it? 30 years of endless training CDs, books, functions and meetings. All of that for no assurance of any reward for the future. I might add that Amway can get expensive after years of attending training and purchasing all of the other training.

Conversely, my job will provide me with a good living, and a pension after 30 years of service so I'll be retiring very comfortably in a couple of years, at the age of 55. While my former sponsor is a physician, I can guarantee you that he will still be working when I retire to go and travel the beaches of the world. Fortunately for me, I never stopped saving and investing for my future even though I had my brush with Amway. For that I am truly thankful because I'm near the end of my working career and will enjoy an early retirement with enough cash to travel around the world and to live comfortably.

But the upline cleverly teaches people not to quit because it keeps a subtle form of pressure on the dowline. Pressure that quitting will result in ultimate failure. That quitting could be stopping just before succeeding. That success cloud be "right around the corner". This is what is used to keep people doubting and hoping and hanging on to the thread of hope that Amway will eventually pay off and that people will magically begin to join your group and suddenly you will be propelled to diamond. But the sad reality is that Amway doesn't work that way. If you struggle to sponsor new people or even to show the plan, you will never go diamond or achieve the high levels in Amway because your ability to recruit downline is the direct key to success.

But something serious business owners must consider is the possibility of quitting Amway to do something else. Quitting Amway doesn't mean you have quit trying to succeed at other things or that you have quit trying to accumulate cash for your golden years. Sometimes it's a wise business decision to quit something, especially when that something is causing you to have negative cash flow, such as Amway. A second job may not be sexy or a quick way to get rich, but if you put in hours, you will get paid. It was a second job that allowed me to lay the foundation for the cash I've now accumulated for retirement. During my time in Amway, I quit my second job but I went back to it after my time in Amway. Amway actually set me back a bit but luckily I snapped out of it in less than a year.

But please take this to heart. Never quitting is insanity if you are not getting positive cash flow from your Amway business. SOmetimes the best decision is to cut your losses and find another path to take. I'm sure glad I did.


Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Amway ""Partner" Stores And The. BBB??

I recently saw comments on this blog from an apparent Amway defender. The comments extolled the virtues of Amway partner stores such as Nike and Apple. To be honest, I don't know if Amway actually partners with Nike and Apple but let's say they do. What does the partner store designation mean? All it means is that Amway IBOs get to list Apple and Nike stuff in their catalogues. If they manage to sell any Nike or Apple stuff, they get a commission paid by NIe or Apple through Amway. But of course, because of the IBO bonuses and because Amway needs to make some money on the transaction, the prices of Nike and Apple products in the Amway catalogue cannot compare (in general) to to big retailers or even Internet shops like Amazon.com.

Assuming that Nike and Apple are truly Amway "partners", they have a one sided partnership. Nike and Apple don't do anything for Amway IBOs except to allow them to sell their products for premium prices on a commission only basis. Meaning is nothing gets sold, Nike and Apple do not have to compensate anyone. It's a no brainer for Nike and Apple. If people sell your stuff for top prices, you pay a commission but if they sell nothing, you pay nothing. It's a great deal for Nike and Apple, again, assuming they really are Amway "partners". Heck, if JoeCool made "I hate Amway" stickers and Amway wanted to be my partner, I would do it too. Nothing to lose and much to gain.

Now, about the BBB. I don't know what Amway's rating actually is because they could be "A' rated in Michigan for example, and not "A" rated in Arizone. The rating has a lot to do with Amway dealing with complaints to the BBB. If they deal with complaints, then they might get a good rating. However, many people are sponsored by friends and family and simply do not register complaints about Amway even if they had a bad experience. But even if they registered, it was likely against an LOS (Line of sponsorship) such as BWW (Britt Worldwide) or WWDB (WOrld Wide Dream Builders) or N21 (Network21). These are for profit third party companies designed to help recruit and train Amway IBOs and who profit even if Amway IBOs lose their shirts. Often these groups are not rated with the Better Business Bureau (BBB). Individual Amway IBOs who do bad and unethical things are also not registered with the BBB so their bad behavior would not be rated by the BBB.

Why do you suppose Amway has such a bad name reputation while their IBOs brag about Amway's alleged BBB reputation? IBOs and their training companies are not Amway. It's very possible that Amway would not approve of the things done by individual IBOs or the training groups but Amway for too long (in my opinion) has profited because of the bad behavior of the lines of sponsorship and the bad behavior of individual IBOs who they claim they can't control. Perhaps if Amway cannot contain the bad behavior, they should not be allowed to profit from this bad behavior and should be fined or have restrictions imposed upon them like Herbalife did last year.

I believe I have thoroughly debunked the partner store and BBB myth, but I'm sure Amway IBOs and defenders will be back to raise the issue again soon. LOL

Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Why Focus On Recruiting?

What does the HR department is a company do? Recruit? THat's what I was told when a diamond speaker was trying to downplay the fact that so many Amway IBOs are focused on recruiting. If you've ever been accosted by a zealous and probably new Amway IBO, you'll probably know what I"m talking about. Newly sponsored IBOs often have the motivation and zeal to try to recruit anyone and everyone they know. They are trying to achieve what upline has told them is needed to accomplish their "dreams". Afterall, nobody is going diamond or even platinum without an army of downline right?

BUt upon closer inspection, you can see the real problem. I mean if I as an IBO could simply sell tons of products for a profit, then my focus doesn't have to be on recruiting, but simply on sales. But over the years, I've unsuccessfully challenged IBOs and Amway defenders to name 1 or 2 people who has sizable Amway businesses sustained primarily by sales and not by recruiting an army. Of course, nobody has even been able to give me an answer. AN\nd that's because Amway products are generic in nature but premium in prices. It makes it a tough sell when your friends and family can get far more product and value at a retailers at a a fraction of the cost of Amway products. Try doing an open minded price comparison and you'll easily see what I mean.

For these reasons, upline developed the concept of buy from yourself and get others to do the same. People generally do not like selling things anyway so it makes sense that a concept of buying from your own store makes the Amway business seem more palatable to the masses. Of course the problem with this method is that you end up focusing on recruiting and you've turned Amway into a pyramid scheme. Look at the recent FTC vs. Herbalife. They found that a majority of sales were not made to actual customers but appeared to be made to the distributors themselves. Herbalife is required to tracked these sales now and it's yet to be seen how this FTC injunction will impact Herbalife long term.

But if you're a prospect or an IBO and focused on recruiting, then you are likely doing so because you too, are unable to sell Amway products just like all the critics claim. Oh, I've heard stories of people having hoards of customers but nobody has ever shown evidence of such nobody can answer why the "diamonds" seemingly have large groups of downline "buyin for themselves". Like the mysterious "Amway retireees" that no one can identify, nobody has been able to identify a few successful and sustainable Amway businesses that relies on product sales primarily. It's because the majority of groups are basically focused on recruiting and running pyramid schemes.

Sunday, October 15, 2017

The Amway Scam?

Before I signed up to join Amway, I was invited to see "the plan" at an open meeting. The speaker seemed to make sense about running a business to make money and how you and make money and save money by being involved with Amway. Except that he misrepresented the Amway experience. The speaker said you save 30% of good by shopping with Amway, which is a lie. You can save 30% shopping with Amway if you pay the distributor price instead of suggested retail, except that the distributor price is much more expensive (on average_ than paying for the same or similar products at a retailer like Costco to WalMart. Anyone who does an honest price comparison can easily see that this is true. WalMart buys from the manufacturer and adds their markup and sells to you. Amway does the same but they "generously" pay a 30+ % bonus to IBOs and that bonus is included in the prices thus Amway has to charge much more than a WalMart or Costco to cover the bonuses.

Then the "scam" comes in. The diamonds and bigshots in Amway say "anyone" can go diamond, get rich and walk the beaches of the world while getting wealthy beyond belief. And all you need to do it subscribe to their teaching system consisting of voicemail, books, CDs and seminars/functions. Join and subscribe and do what you're advised and you're nearly assured of success. It's a lie. There is ZERO evidence that the system helps anyone succeed. Upline will say everyone who succeed is on the system. While that might be true, there are millions of people on the same system who fail. It's like saying everyone who wins the lottery has a ticket while disregarding the millions of people who get on the system and fail. People fail because the Amway compensation plan is designed that way. The multi level compensation plan assure a majority of failures.

So the Amway business has people joining in the hopes of riches but they are basically chasing the end of a rainbow. You can see it and chase it but you will never get it. Looks at the diamonds in the US. Some of them died while still working and some got divorced. But the vast majority of Amway diamonds are the same old diamonds from the 1990's and there are very few new diamonds. If the system actually worked, new diamonds would be churning out regularly but they aren't. And they can't right now because Amway sales from 2014 to now is down about 25%. Amway went from 11.8 billion to 8.8 billion last Amway fiscal year. Without new virgin ground to exploit, Amway is saturating and shrinking.

Overall Amway is a scam in my opinion. They sell false hopes and false dreams under the guise of running a low overhead business amd then the diamond turns around and sells useless tools that only help the diamonds. The success is not there. The "fruit on the tree" that some diamonds used to talk about is not there. In my opinion, Amway is just a big scam run by diamonds so they can make their fortunes selling tools. I welcome and dare anyone to prove me wrong.

Friday, October 13, 2017

Amway/WWDB Teaching?

A comment that was left on one of my blogs regarding Amway and WWDB. Hopefully reading this comment will help some people, and entertain others:

My husband wasn't abusive when we met and were first married. That started happening maybe six months after we were married.

He was already in Amway when we met, but he wasn't very active. After we got married, he started to get more active in "the business."

I didn't know much about Amway when I met him. I met his upline sponsors when we got engaged and I thought they were just good friends. After we were married, I went to a rally and was struck by how the wives seemed to be so supportive. Then I heard the Emerald wife speak, and all she did was edify her husband or go on to "us gals" that we needed to let go of any negativity. As I went to more functions, I heard the wives tell "us gals" to be submissive - that we were wrong for having any needs or requests. It's one of the kids' birthday or your birthday and there's a function? Guess which one takes priority. You can celebrate later when you're "Free," when you're a Diamond.

I thought there would be some sales training. I went to an Artistry clinic - they taught us how to put on makeup and showed us some of the latest colors. But there was nothing about how to find customers, generate sales, or even have a makeup party. At one time, there was a tape by Bettyjean Brooks (wife of Jim Brooks, WWDB) about how to build a retail business. I ordered it, but never received it. She and Jim divorced. Jim stayed in WWDB and the tape suddenly became "unavailable."

Husband really followed the "fake it 'til you make it" teaching. To everyone, he was Mr. Successful. After our child was born, I became a stay at home mother. He led everyone to believe that it was our Amway income that allowed me to stay home. We weren't even at 1500 PV. We never made any money. I kept my mouth shut and played the submissive/supportive wife role. Keeping the books, running call-in and pickup for our downline, and trying to peddle the products to "customers." He never tried to sell anything - that was the wife's job. WWDB taught that.

It all came to a head when the police got involved because of the abuse. He had to move out of our house. He lied to everyone, saying that it was all really nothing and that the courts (and I) were blowing everything out of proportion. After going through counseling and therapy, it was clear to me (and to the therapist) that he was not being honest with any of us. I filed for divorce.

It was then that the upline contacted me. Our sponsor (the wife), platinum and emerald each called me. It started out that they were "concerned" about me and wanted to counsel me. When I told them exactly what happened and why I was leaving, they told me that it was "unbiblical" for me to leave my husband. Yelling at me. Accusing me of negativity. They also said that there was no way he could have done those things, that they just couldn't believe it. I offered to let them see a copy of the police report. Nobody ever took me up on that offer.

Now, I can't say that Amway taught him to be abusive, but I wholeheartedly believe they taught him to be a good liar and how to hide the truth and dodge questions. They did everything short of preach that the "little lady" stay at home, pregnant and in the kitchen. Wives on stage used to brag about how the couple drove a hundred miles and left their kids sleeping in the car while they went inside someone's house to show a plan.

Freedom, indeed. More like servitude.

Thursday, October 12, 2017

After A Few Months Of Amway?

I send this message to inform IBOs that they should be aware of their circumstances in their Amway business. What are your expenses and income like? What I mean is when you are a new IBO, it is common for you to buy/sell your 100 PV, and perhaps listen to some cds. If you basically did what your sponsor or upline advised, you made your 100 PV bonus level and you will receive a bonus from Amway for about $10 or so. If you did as advised by your upline/sponsor, then you likely made a namelist and started contacting some potential business partners aka prospects. You're probably a bit excited because things are going as you hoped. You did your part and a bonus is on it's way to your doorstep. Heck, you may have even sponsored a friend or relative because of your newly found excitement and enthusiasm.

But what happens after a few months have passed? If you are still doing 100 PV and have no downline, then what are the chances that you will ever achieve anything? Your excitement is wearing off and now the Amway opportunity is becoming "work". You are also starting to notice that it is starting to get expensive to continue to purchase products, many of which you never purchased before. For example, were you buying cases of energy drinks and "high end" vitamins before Amway? Did you buy $50 cases of bottled water before Amway? Supposedly their laundry soap and other cleaners are highly concentrated, therefore your main consumables are the nutrition/vitamin products.

Even if you managed to find some downline, are they duplicating what you do? Are they also moving volume and sponsoring downline? If not, what are your chances of fulfilling the 6-4-2 plan or some similar version of it. When I saw the plan, I thought it was reasonable and I was on my way to platinum. What I discovered though, is that as you progress, upline has greater expectations of you and that includes more tool purchases. (I was in WWDB). In the end, my recommended tool purchases ate up any profits I had and at the 4000 level, I was just about breaking even, which means I was at a loss when factoring in my time spent and other miscellaneous expenses such as gas money, etc, not to mention the time spent trying to build the business.

Where are you at? If you're been in for more than a year, are you on schedule to become platinum or are you at 200 PV with one downline? Maybe you have a small group with 600 PV? You still aren't close to a net profit. For the vast majority of people, success is not right around the corner. What's around the corner for most is more time lost, more money expended, and no profits. If your group is not growing each and every month, you are sliding backwards. If you don't constantly have new IBOs coming into the group, you are probably stagnant. With about half of IBOs dropping out each year, keeping a group together is a tremendous task.

IBOs, where are you at after a few months? Where are you at after a year? If you haven't gone platinum, it is nearly a certainty that it will never happen, despite what your upline might say. The facts are there, it's a matter of whether you want to believe it or not.

Wednesday, October 11, 2017

Complaints About Amway?

Over the years, I have seen literally hundreds (if not more) blogs and testimonials about Amway. Most of them decry the pitfalls of being an Amway IBO. Most of the complaints cite the fact that Amway in general has higher prices than comparable retailers and the fact that the system consisting of voicemail, books, cds and seminars ate up any profits the IBO may have made and resulted in net losses for most. One particular Amway apologist bemoans the fact that the internet is full of bad testomonials about Amway. The reason why there are so many negative testimonials about Amway is because over the years, thousands, possibly millions either had a bad experience for the reasons I cited above, or personally know of someone who had a bad experience in Amway.

Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up for the gym. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".

Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases. The person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business like by a friend or family member of the IBO. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to no venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the internet to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway was what they were deceptively pitching, nor did critics make up claims about Amway productsm etc. It wasn't critics who lied to someone to get them to see the Amway plan. In most cases. bad IBO behavior contributes to bad Amway experiences.

It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that most are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves. Such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds, regardless of any IBO's profitability potential. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success. Their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in many cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.

If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.

Tuesday, October 10, 2017

CORE - Designed For Failure?

Amway leaders often refer to CORE as their steps to ensure that an IBO will succeed. But in my informed opinion, CORE will guarantee failure. Here's a breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use:

1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5 - Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate

Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).

Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.

Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.

Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure.

What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.

That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.

Monday, October 9, 2017

Bad Upline Advice?

In the Amway business, most active IBOs are advused to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning. (I will add that most mentors don't get paid for advice and this is not the same thing as perhaps a football coach who might be compensated) Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?

Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore.

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?

Friday, October 6, 2017

Are Amway IBOs Deceptive?

I cannot even count the number of Amway pitches I have seen on the internet. Because many of them sound exactly the same, or at least very similar. You can probably guess that many of these IBO recruiters were taught by the same LOS such as WWDB or BWW. That is one the major problems I see with the Amway opportunity, that large groups of people are being taught lies or unethical methods of running their business or recruiting. Amway defenders like to cite the fact that 10,000 or even 100,000 IBOs is small in the overall world of Amway and Amway has about 3 million IBOs worldwide. What many Amway defenders won't say is that apparently, most LOSs teach the same basic theories, thus IBO abuse is very significant.

I do not believe that a person can build a large Amway business based on honest recruitment and retention methods. In the past and even now, many IBOs do not know much about the tools business and how you actually get a cut. In the past, some groups lied and claimed they made no profits on tools. Some even went so far as to say their tools company was a non profit company. Eventually, downline IBOs discovered the real deal about the tools and then uplines started to admit that they profited from tools, and started to tell their downline a little about the system. However, these same uplines, many of whom are still active today, have never been held accountable for their past lies and deception. They simply wrote revisionist history where diamonds who got divorced or did something embarrassing were not mentioned or simply disappeared. And IBOs took the bait.

But can you build an Amway business based on pure honesty? I suppose it's possible, but in the US, it would be nearly impossible. Just the mention of the name Amway will turn the stomachs of many potential recruits. It is why some uplines invented the curiosity approach and why some IBOs resort to pure lies to get people to see the plan. Even when I was first prospected over 20 years ago, I was invited to a college "beer bust", only to arrive and see people in suits at a home with the white board. It is why I saw many people walk out of board plans once the name "Amway" was mentioned. It had to be that they were deceived or lied to.

So if you are an Amway IBO or simply an information seeker, I think this is a very fair and appropriate question. Can you build a sustainable Amway business based on honesty and the truth? What have you seen or experienced thus far? If what I have said is reasonable and true, then is it going to be worth your time and money to build this business? That is something your conscience will have to determine.

Thursday, October 5, 2017

Is Your Amway Business A Joke?

I hear Amway supporters often mention that you will have a real business if you treat it like one. It is my informed observation that most IBOs do not treat their businesses like a real one, despite following the advice of their trusted upline. It is also my opinion that the Amway business itself is flawed and many IBOs, in their zeal to sponsor downline, do crazy things at times, such as tricking people into meetings or being deceptive about what they are doing. Many IBOs never sell a single product and never sponsor any downline. How can anyone build a business under those conditions? Yet that is the most common experience for newbies.

Many IBOs do not bother to qualify their prospects. They will sponsor anyone who is breathing. It could be due to uplines making the business seem easy. For example, I have heard that going platinum is so easy that someone's dog can go platinum. Another mistake IBOs make is they do not look at the likelihood of an IBO succeeding. They will sponsor anyone, anywhere. Like real stores, opening a new one creates competition and I don't know of any IBOs who take this into consideration before recruiting a new prospect. The solution to a faltering business is apparently to attempt to open more "Amway stores" despite a lack of sales. Or the solution is to buy more tools and training, as if spending more money will help a faltering business.

New recruits are also encouraged to partake in the teaching system, regardless of their expectations and business goals. This participation in the system is what often leads to IBO failure and business losses. They spend more on tools than what they generate in income. This heavily contributes to the poor retention rate among IBOs. Even IBOs who can progress and make some money will be channeling their profits to upline by their tool consumption. It is my informed opinion that an IBO must reach the 4000PV level or platinum level before they start to break even. And If I might add, according to Amway's stats less only about 1 in 400 IBOs reach the platinum level so you are already facing overwhelming odds just to reach the break even point in Amway.

Here's the real test for an IBO. Walk into a bank. Speak to a loan officer and show the loan officer the 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 plan, whichever plan your group uses. And see if the loan officer will grant you a business loan based on that plan. It is more likely that you be laughed out of the bank. Seriously, the plan only makes sense, apparently to people who are unable to properly evaluate a business plan. That's because the presentation is more about selling dreams and hopes than about business and actually generating a profit.

Do you have a real business or a joke?

Wednesday, October 4, 2017

Get Rich Quick In Amway?

One of the things my upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is ot more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not "quick". I once heard a diamond say even if it takes you 30 years to go diamond, it will be worth it. I'm not so sure that's true. If you do the math, you'll see why.

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a net profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. I still see Crown Ambassadors and double diamonds working the functions and open meetings, at least until some of them passed away recently. Nobody wants to "walk away" and collect residual income forever? Maybe these diamonds and big pins are working because they have to??

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 2-5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, not to mention that segments of your business can collapse at the drop of a hat.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may currently lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point. The only ones who are getting rich from Amway are the owners of Amway and a select few who profit from Amway and your purchases of tools. You can take that to the bank!