Thursday, March 3, 2011

Your Upline's Lack Of Credentials?

I recently read a comment from an Amway zealot. She mentions that someone's credentials must be considered when looking at information that is presented. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Strange how they question credentials of everyone except their beloved leaders, some of whom told bold faced lies in the past.

I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has high credentials, but do they really? Certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. Also, the diamond pin is one that is like a lifetime achievement, meaning you could have been diamond for 6 months in 1982 and never qualified again, but you can still wear the pin as you are still recognized as having achieved diamond status. I guess Joecool should be refered to as 4000 PV if that is the case.

What many people wrongly assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. I doubt that any diamonds would take that bet.

But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.

I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

What credibility do you have? What have you accomplished? Did you help people become financially free with a lifestyle like no other? All you do is bash, bitch, whine and cry because you didn't have what it takes for success.

John said...

Good points about diamonds, but that aside, what about your upline eagle, silver, or platinum? Many of those will still be money losers, yet they are unquestioned authorities on "building a business".

This is all part of two popular cult phenomena: sacred science (by which upline is glorified) and the "we/they" syndrome (by which outsiders are discredited). It is believed without question that the upline pins have access to secrets that have been "proven" to "guarantee success". However, MLM gurus who speak against pyramid schemes, like Robert Fitzpatrick are instantly discredited as communists. I am frequently told that I "have no credibility" since I am not part of Amway, yet the people who tell me that are uneducated, unaccomplished, unable to deal with numbers and abstract ideas, and generally money-losers when it comes to their Amway businesses. To an Ambot, 10 years of diligent research can be debunked in an instant by a glib, ill-informed slogan, such as "there's a 100% success rate in the system and a 0% success rate outside of it".

John said...

Anonymous at 4:12, Joe has far more credibility than whoever recruited you, by virtue of 1) higher max PV level, 2) more time studying the business, 3) the ability to rationally and objectively critique it rather than be brainwashed into submission in favor of it. But guess what! You accepted everything your sponsor told you without question. You ravenously devoured the hours of tapespeak he spouted so you could regurgitate it the same. You repeated false stat after false stat (Amway has made more millionaires blah blah...) without checking the facts yourself! The absurdity is that you don't realize you just proved his point.

Joecool said...

I might add that I was actually an eagle as well. Ironically, if not for the system, I would have made a net profit.

Anonymous said...

Our upline has mentioned how much they received on their tax returns as well as what their income was each year.

Guess you had deceitful upline, don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Anonymous said...

anon, GO SUCK AN EGG!

Joecool said...

LOL, anon at 11:09. Your upline got tax refunds? That means they probably lost money. People who make money in business pay taxes, not get refunds! Thanks, you made my day with that comment!

Anonymous said...

Tax returns??? Big red flag in the business world! Tax returns are a result of losses.

Was that income they told you, or revenue? Why don't you tell us those numbers? Maybe not so fantastic?

We're waiting breathlessly! BTW, did your 'life coach' give you permission to be on these amway hater blogs?

Aren't you in this 'bathroom wall' of society? Careful, now, don't wanna get any on you.

Don't panic. Just go listen to another CASSETTE TAPE. That's the ticket.

Aurora

Anonymous said...

i was telling anon #1 to suck an egg. dangit, why wasn't i more specific the first time???!!! GRRRRRRR!!!!

John said...

I am convinced that not only do Ambots not understand what tax refunds are for, but they also don't understand what the difference is between gross and net. They will frequently say "the average ibo MADE $115 per month", which is actually gross, not net. What you gross isn't what you "made". If you're only grossing $115 per monthy, you're probably losing rather than making.

Joecool said...

Many Amwayers don't realize that their losses from Amway and related tools lowers the tax liability from their job income, thus the tax refund. I get a kick from IBOs who claim to profit from Amway and receiving a bigger tax refund to boot! They are more than likely lying and making these stories up.

John said...

Sigh...In the words of Ron White, you can't fix stupid. In my profession, I spend much of my energy educating people about their lifestyles; i.e., what you're currently doing will kill you if you don't stop. They all think they know better, despite much less formal education in the matter. IBO's are the same way. It doesn't matter you've researched for years or had years of experience. Some new IBO 6 weeks in thinks he knows better.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully the will scurry back to their life coaches and ask them, "Is it true what those meannie ogre negative nellie amway haters say? Are tax refunds really a loss?"

To which the life coach will reply, "What have I told you about being on those meannie ogre negative nellie amway hater sites? Hmm? I want what's best for you. Are any of them where you want to be in life? Haven't I always had your best interests at heart? Run along now, I have many minions, er, ambots, er, suckers, er, other pesky IBOs to counsel, savvy?"

The answer to the question? It got lost in there somewhere with the mindless double-speak psuedo answer. Ambot runs off thinking he just knew his life coach was awesome!

He know just what to do: listen to another CASSETTE TAPE

Matthew said...

Higher MAX PV? What the hell is that? MAX PV? There's no such thing as MAX PV because there's no limit on your PV! It's obvious that you were never involved with Amway. You're just a guy with a pathetic opinion. Also, you assume that Joe possibly has the highest PV level than anyone else including that person's sponsor. Let me ask you this; how do you even know that person's sponsor's business or my sponsor's business for that matter? My sponsor is at 6000 PV and makes enough at this level to afford have his wife stay home and look after their kids. How good is that? Is that bad? Oh really? Why? You so neglect your family that you don't care whether or not you spend quality time with your wife and kids? You don't care if your kids end up in a day care, are abused, grow in an environment with negative influences and then you wonder why they end up as fucked up teenagers? Is that how you value your family? Que sera, sera? Was that the motto? If yes, no wonder you hate Amway so much. You're so closed minded that you can't appreciate Amway's potential to liberate you and your family from a life of corporate or self-employment bondage. So shut up, you big mouth! More time studying the business? Who? Joe? Joe is your sibling man! He's got the same mentality and lifestyle as you do except that you two make money differently, yet you both work hard but not smart to earn money. Joe hasn't studied the business and neither have you. If you were, the two of you would be in today AND actually turn a profit, not just be the two signed up guys with no activity or poorly run businesses. Brainwashed? I would rather be brainwashed by these Amway conmen and fanatic cult leaders than by your pathetic opinions based on your resentments as a result of quitting and in your case John, of not having ever been involved with Amway (yet you sound so convincing in your arguments that you must be the sweetest darling in the world, albeit with no experience with Amway but an overnight Amway expert!!!)

Joecool said...

There you go again. Making assumptions about our lifestyles and income. Amway says the average IBO earns $1400 a year. Have fun with that lifestyle.

Joecool said...

By the way, anon from Scarborough Canada, aka "Mathew" aka, Lucifer, aka, cowardly loser.

You don't fool me by posting under different names.

Anonymous said...

Anon from Scarborough, you are obviously a brain dead idiot who has done absolutely nothing in Amway. I would bet that you haven't sponsored a single person. Please keep posting your stupid comments, it is very entertaining.

***Former WWDB Lemming***

Joecool said...

Not to mention that same anon has/had a minimum wage job at a bank. No wonder he thought Amway was a good option. Soon enough he'll be running his own anti Amway blog. LOL

Anonymous said...

joe, that made my day!